I recently had a chat with muslim from Pakistan. Here are a few segments of our conversation. I think this is very revealing especially since this guy is probably considered a "moderate" Muslim.
First I pointed out a Hadith to him and asked for his reaction:
(10:42:33 PM) ME: Narrated Abu Qilaba: Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ."
(10:43:20 PM) ME: Bukhari book 4 hadith 234
(10:43:27 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: i am not sure is this is true hadis or not
(10:43:35 PM) ME: yes
(10:43:47 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: but urine is used as medicine now a days in many medicine
(10:45:12 PM) ME: camel urine? I did not know this
(10:45:22 PM) ME: I wasnt talking about that though
(10:45:31 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: yea it is used in medicine
(10:46:04 PM) ME: I was talking about what the prophet did to this man
(10:46:48 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: i am not sure that this is true or not i am hearing this first time
(10:46:58 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: but it is true that his hand should be cut off
(10:47:03 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: he was thief
This just shows that unlike Christians and Jews they take everything literally and that it is met for all time nothing is taken as historical. So he agrees this mans hand should be cut off and he also says camel urine is used in medicine???? I am unaware of this. I tried to research this but I find no evidence. Anyone in the medical field aware of this please let me know. Now on to the next part of the conversation. This time I ask him about the killing of someone that converts from Islam to another religion.
(10:47:43 PM) ME: Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
(10:48:04 PM) ME: whoever converts from Islam to another religion kill them?
(10:48:13 PM) ME: maybe this is the way things should be?
(10:48:30 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: yea may be quated out of context
(10:48:42 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: we dont know fulll story
(10:49:23 PM) ME: http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=84&translator=1&start=0&number=57
(10:49:28 PM) ME: theres the whole story
(10:49:34 PM) ME: its an islamic website
(10:49:44 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: oh ic
(10:49:59 PM) ME: go to the link and read
(10:50:57 PM) ME: as far as I can tell it is justified if someone converts from Islam to another religion for them to be killed
10:51:19 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: no
(10:52:09 PM) ME: why you say no?
(10:52:30 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: this is right
(10:53:04 PM) ME: what the hadith says is correct right?
(10:53:15 PM) ME: i dont know
(10:53:54 PM) ME: the Quran even says this
(10:54:05 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: yea i suport this
(10:54:19 PM) ME: if one converts to Islam and then turns his back we can be killed
(10:54:23 PM) ME: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
(10:54:28 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: yea
(10:54:31 PM) ME: Surah 4:89
(10:54:35 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: Thats very good
(10:54:40 PM) PAKISTAN MUSLIM: i am happy to listen this.
This conversation tells alot. He seemed at first to be in denial that Islam would approve killing an apostate. Then he realized there was no denying the passages I had put forth. Either that or he wanted to try to act like a "moderate" to me and realized that he couldnt any longer. Whatever the case he believes that anyone who converts from Islam to another religion can rightfully be killed.
Labels: apostate, Christianity vs Islam, Islam, Pakistan
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Photo Credit: Sam Graham (click on image for larger view)
